Prologue

It starts with a toxic workplace and ends in a yoga studio. Jennifer Saminathen, a smart, driven, and vibrant woman, has an MBA and a promising career in Silicon Valley. So why does she want to leave it all to become a yoga teacher?

Before we dive into the whys and wherefores wellness entrepreneurship, we’ll hear a case study on dropping out, on the eve of Jennifer’s first yoga teacher training class.

Transcript

Sarah Vance 0:00

We still don't get paid what I believe we're worth

Tiana Dodson 0:00

I had secretly been wanting to try health coaching

Carrie Ingoglia 0:00

women have been dropping out.

Andi Zeisler 0:00

Your body is the next frontier of liberation.

Stefani Ruper 0:00

You have to monetize.

Sarah Banet-Weiser 0:00

We buy into this idea that anyone can do this,

Victoria Ferriz 0:00

your body becomes proof.

Kelly Diels 0:00

whether or not we're trying to sell a service or a product. All women are brands

Brenda Swann 0:00

now I'm a health coach.

Kaila Tova 0:00

My name is Kaila Tova. And this is your body your brand prologue

in 54321. So I am here today with Jennifer Saminathen, who is starting her yoga journey tonight. So, welcome.

Jennifer Saminathen 0:00

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Kaila Tova 0:00

Yeah, I'm so I'm so excited. So let's kind of dive into this. So I am interested in hearing a little bit about in late 2017, I started going to writing meetups to work on this podcast, they were largely attended by women. Although sometimes men showed up to work on their sci fi novels. I live in Silicon Valley after all, during one meetup for the fall of 2018, I ended up sitting across from a woman with whom I instantly clicked. Before we started writing, we shared with one another the projects on which we were working me this podcast, her a blog about travel and her mindfulness journey. It turns out that she, like me had recently dropped out of the corporate workforce. further conversations revealed that she was planning on becoming a yoga teacher. And I asked her if she would be interested in sharing her journey with me and the podcast. So we set a date, October 17 2018, the day that she would be starting her yoga teacher training. We both got up early in the morning, so I could record before work as I had just gotten a new job, even though she'd be up late that night training. And I got to know why Jennifer seven Nathan decided to drop out.

Jennifer Saminathen 0:00

Oh, okay, how I got here. So let's first start about, I was actually working in corporate for seven years. So I started a corporate job right after college. Just grinding and hustling and working my way to climb the corporate ladder, basically, doing what it took to get promoted, doing what it took to just continue getting things done in a professional manner. And it wasn't up until last year, my company had a huge layoffs. So I wasn't laid off myself. But what happened was, they were closing offices and relocating to Oakland. And for those that don't know, I live in Sunnyvale. And that, as you know, living in the Bay Area during commute time is arable traffic. So that just wouldn't have worked with my schedule. I took that as just an opportunity to reevaluate what I was doing with my wife, one. And whether or not I was with or not, I was truly happy. And I booked a ticket, I quit my job, I booked a ticket to Zimbabwe, I was living abroad for two months, volunteering for wildlife conservation, which completely altered my perception of life, and my priorities and what I wanted to do. And during that time, I've just really been taking a long sabbatical. And I came back from Zimbabwe with a fresh perspective, not wanting to go back in to tech, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? It gave me the foundation that I needed, it gave me the relationships I have today and the resources that I have. And that's fantastic. But I just knew deep down in my gut that that is not the next chapter for me. And I wanted to do something different. Hence, why I met you at our shut up and write and I am pursuing very actively my writing career. And also, at the same time doing yoga teacher training, which starts tonight.

Kaila Tova 0:00

Okay, so I want to go back a little bit and talk about your corporate job. So what were you doing in corporate America?

Jennifer Saminathen 0:00

Great question. So my exact title was a world wide compliance manager. I know that sounds really fancy, what that big basically means is, I was leading the global team that protected the company's intellectual property. So I was responsible for leading software audit. So we had to audit our customers to ensure they're using licenses within the terms of the agreement. But most importantly, it was a revenue generating role. So I have I was responsible for bringing in millions of dollars on an annual basis. On a good year 6.8 million. I remember, that was a fantastic year, you know, on a bad year, $3 million. But that's still a lot of money. And just a very demanding role, I would say, you know, it took a lot out of me, emotionally, physically, you had to be on your A game all the time, which I'm sure a lot of people feel in their corporate tech roles, especially if you are a woman, and you are working primarily with a lot of men. And, you know, we talked about this briefly, but I just, there's just times when I felt I was walking a very tight rope. And what I mean by that is, I had to be nice enough, that I was likable, that I could get promoted, so that people would work with me, but I had to be assertive and aggressive enough, so that I was taken seriously as a leader. And I had to play that role very Finally, every day. That would look like, you know, definitely putting the effort to dress nicely. Right, making sure that one I was looking good. Like I had to think about what I wore, how to think about the hair, how to make sure. But also not overdo it right? I didn't want to come off across as if I was overselling my appearance. But I also didn't want to look like a slob, or because unfortunately, the reality was that the appearance did matter. And the looks didn't matter in some aspect. And I, I took that into consideration. And also filtering what I said. So I had to use certain words, because I didn't want to offend people. So say for example is and here's an example of, of a meeting that I was in. And it was with four other men on the call, including my manager. And it was really about an update on my team, what the department is doing, how much revenue we're bringing, and where do we see ourselves in the next couple months, just a typical forecasting, meeting. But the difference was that now it was all eyes on me, meaning the company just needed this money. And I can feel it. So there was a lot of pressure. And they were they had a lot of questions like what's happening? So what what are the analytics behind this? How do you know this? You're going to bring in $2 million in the next couple of months, like questions like that now being grilled. And it gets to the point where he's just sitting there. And you're thinking, I know this. They're just asking me questions. But the same time I'm feeling a little attack, if that makes sense. And I remember sitting there asking these questions, and I had this out of body experience. I remember this has an out of body experience. And once the call was done just because they're grilling me left and right. I hung up, and I sat in the office in the office that I was sitting in, I turned my chair to face the window, because I was so ashamed. And I just started crying. And I remember just thinking, I'm tired. I am I'm exhausted. And all the tears came out. You know, you're not supposed to cry me office right then kind of something you're supposed to do and try that. So I I called my really good friend. She no longer worked at the company, but she was just my rock, my soldier. And I called her because she left. And I just needed, I just need to that. And she was just there for me in a way that really helped elevate me. And put things in perspective. I'm not, I mean, even after that, I still stayed. I mean, I I stayed. And now that I think about it, I stayed for probably a year after that event, just just fighting. You know, I think that's the mentality, you got to keep feeling as if I had to fight.

Kaila Tova 0:00

Yeah. Why? Why did you feel that pressure to continue fighting?

Jennifer Saminathen 11:08

I felt like I had to prove myself and I, I don't know how to think about this. Because I was the only female among so many men, and quite frankly, I, I loved my executive, I love my manager. And I didn't want to let them down. We had a great relationship. But I just an internally, I felt pressure as well. Like I had to just show them. I don't know, I had to just show that know what, I am young, I am a female, but I can rock it. And it was just this daily the daily act of continuing to prove myself to Oh, I deserve this. Now that I'm saying this out loud.

Kaila Tova 12:15

I feel like this is not you like your story is unique, because it's you but it's also not unique. Right? You know what I mean? The specifics are unique to you, but the universal feeling of needing to prove yourself and needing to show them you can do this, right? Yeah. And, you know, I had a similar thing where I was, I mine was a little different. I was boxed out of my role, essentially, a bunch of men were hired and started treating me like a direct report. And I just remember feeling like I have to stay to prove this, or something, I have to be able to fix this. I have to. And then a year later, you know, after fighting for a year, it was just like, Okay, I'm gonna rage quit. So I'm going to do this as quietly as I can. Because otherwise, I'm flipping a table and walking out, you know, wow.

Jennifer Saminathen 13:09

Wait, so you did flip the table and walk out? Are you finished?

Kaila Tova 13:13

Oh, I wanted to

Jennifer Saminathen 13:15

Yeah.

Kaila Tova 13:16

Yeah. I know, I left on good terms. But man, that was a rough was a rough roll.

Jennifer Saminathen 13:24

Yeah, I can imagine of it. Exactly. Yeah.

Kaila Tova 13:28

So before you started doing, you know, worldwide compliance and revenue generation, how, like, what what did you study? What did you want to, you know, be when you grew up?

Jennifer Saminathen 13:37

Oh, yeah. So I, as a child just loved reading and writing. And had a journal, I kept a diary, I wrote it in every day, English was always my favorite subject in school. And this just happened a few days ago. So as I mentioned, I am seriously just pursuing my career and writing at this moment and just follow his passions and following my dreams. Well, that isn't easy. Every single day, there's going to be days when you you look up and you're thinking, What am I doing? This is harder than it looks, right? You know, you know, ideal. And you want to give up. And it was cool my car. And my car was just a massive chunk, by the way, I pay my car, and I pick up and I find a high school, short story that I wrote. And I read over the teachers comments. And she said, Jennifer, this is writing to be proud of. And for some reason, I told myself, I haven't cleaned my trunk and forever, after all these years, just as a reminder, other one is that I love this, I love doing this. And somewhere else, the way I probably got caught up in life, like we all do. Right? I got caught up in achieving and performing. And I lost sight of what I actually want to be when I was younger. And that as an author is a writer. So I went to I went to college, and majored in business management, and through graduation, and then doing an internship at a big tech company in the area. And then that led to another opportunity, which led to end it just was a cycle of opportunity, jumping from one opportunity to the next without taking a breath. Really.

Kaila Tova 15:59

I'm really interested in kind of how you started turning towards, you know, an independent, you know, gig style lifestyle, if you will, like how did freelance become a part of the equation in a tangible way?

Jennifer Saminathen 16:15

So I wouldn't say that it is at this point in a tangible way, meaning I don't have it all figured out at this point at all. I think that's the beauty of, of how much I've grown and what my purse how my perspective has changed, is because I don't need to see the entire staircase before I take that first step. Meaning I am okay with the uncertainty, you know, back then the uncertainty and the messiness would have drove me nuts. You know, I would try to control and manipulate every situation NASA, my life thinking. If everything was just perfectly laid out, then I would be okay. So to answer your question, you don't right now it just I guess, I had to almost lose everything, meaning I came back from Zimbabwe, I reevaluate in my life. I said, Okay, I, one can no longer continue living in my beautiful apartment in Los Gatos. I needed to come to terms with that, let it go, especially if I was serious about starting a new career and doing what I was passionate about. I had to let go my apartment, which was very difficult for me to let that go, I had to just sit down and, and take a good look at my life and think, Okay, what do you want to do? What's the next step you want to do this, you got to go all in. That's, that's what I told myself, we got to go all in, you gotta burn your boat. I was like, Okay, this money that I'm now saving? Where's it going? What am I going to do with it. And I started investing in a writing coach, one, a very expensive writing coach, which I love, by the way, who has completely changed and altered my craft and the art of it, but completely worth it. And I then also invested the rest of the money that I had into yoga teacher training, because I figured, you know, this is something that I also love doing. And if anything through this journey, it will deepen my practice and allow me to learn more about myself. So I don't know at the end of this, if I'm going to be a yoga instructor, or what will happen, I just know that I needed to make moves in that direction, or else I was going to continue feeling stuck.

Kaila Tova 19:37

How did you find out about like getting a writing coach or doing yoga training? I'm really interested in kind of like what influences you had to like say, oh, there are other people who've burned their boats, there are other people who can help me make this happen.

Jennifer Saminathen 19:52

Yeah, that's, that's a great question. So I will tell you that when I decide to leave my job, I actually what I did was I wrote a story on how deeply unhappy I was with my current role. Why I'm leaving to live abroad for a few months, what this means to me, and I ended up sharing the story. My network been shared it with their network. So now it was everyone was rooting me on in the most beautiful way, I felt so much love and so much support. And people reaching out to them that haven't talked to him for ever, you know, just saying, No, I want to do that too. Like, I want to take that risk, I want to quit my job, I want to pursue my passions and my dream. But I have a family to have a mortgage, you know, have obligations. And I'm not in the same situation that you're in. Because I have so many things I need to take care of. And I get that right. I sympathize with that. And I came back. And now people are asking the cliffhanger. So you know, are you going to go back? Like what what's happening? Are you, you know, what are you going to be now with your life. And I then felt even more inspired because it was this moment of, I can't go back. And I'm not saying later down the line, things aren't going to change. But right now, I can't go back into tech because I have to be the one meaning I have to walk the walk and show not only myself, but just people that hey, there's more to life, and just the hustle and the grind of being at a job that you don't like, quite frankly, you know, it takes a lot of courage to step out and do what you want to do. And it was through other people through the support that I was given through talking to so many people about my journey that I recognize, there's a lot of fear out there, myself included, because because Kaila, you know, there's moments when I was going to go back there was moments when I got offers. Because I looked at my bank account, and I said, Jennifer, you you need to figure out financially, what you're going to do. And I started reading up on writers that I loved as authors, I love Elizabeth Gilbert, love her. And I just became I'm obsessed, meaning I was obsessed about other writers and how they their journey, and how they got to where they are. So I read on read up on Elizabeth Gilbert, what she went through. And she also was waiting tables and working in restaurants, and would come home at night and just start writing. If she didn't care whether or not her writing would produce any money. And that wasn't the point. The point was, she had to write for the creation for the art of it. And that's how I feel I feel that fire I feel that spark where I'm going to do this, whether or not it grows into something bigger, which I hope it does, because I feel the message is so strong. But I'm going to do this, regardless of what happens. And that that's when I knew I was like, I know my heart is in the right direction, because I would lose it all to do this.

I wish I could tell you that I I followed someone and did exactly what they did. But I did it. I really just decided that this is what I was going to do. And that's the reason it was so messy. And there's moments that were not pretty. Right. There's moments when I was trying on the floor, figuring out what am I gonna do next? Because I had no, I had no clear direction. And that's the thing. I it's becoming clearer for. But initially, in those first couple months, I was still figuring it out. I was still thinking where, first of all, where am I going to live? Right? And what am I going to do for money? How am I going to sustain? doing what I'm doing? What I did start? What I did start doing that was actually very helpful. Was I started listening to podcasts? That, Yes, I did. And I was listening to them multiple times out of the day. And just things that would inspire me. So I listen to a lot of the Oprah podcasts. I listened to podcasts, from women who were creating their own companies, and how in the first couple years, new authors would write things that no one would read. And they didn't really have an audience. And that didn't matter. They just continuing to write.

Kaila Tova 26:08

Do you do you know which podcasts like we're specifically? I'm just I'm really curious kind of showed you that this was the way besides Oprah?

Jennifer Saminathen 26:18

Yeah, so I, I will admit I, I listened to Oprah heavily just because it was Oprah super soul conversation to be exact. She just interviewed people that just talked about following your soul, you know, trusting your intuition. What, like what to do when you hit those moments of darkness, know whether, you know you are going in the right direction. So it was just things that I needed to hear, and I need to connect with at that time. I also live and to Rachel Hollis, I don't know if you've heard of her podcast called rise. This was introduced to me by my cousin and I haven't heard of her prior. But she is a woman, a phenomenal business woman who graduated from high school, she didn't go to college. And she built a multimillion dollar business with the Google search bar. So she self taught herself and built this company. She grew up in a very religious home. Her father was a pastor. And she grew up performing and achieving because when daddy was around, she had to be the perfect child. Although, and then when he was gone, she had to just stop talking. So she carried a lot of that with her in the business world. She's killing it. She was just doing so loud the company but whenever anyone asked her about it, she was she almost didn't like talking about it because of her upbringing, or she would downplay the success of her hard work and all the sweat she put into her companies. And I think that's the message is why do we do that? Why do we as women downplay how much work we're putting into something or downplay our success?

Kaila Tova 28:47

So why yoga? What kind of made you say, all right, well, I'm going to be a writer, obviously, this is a thing that I've cared about, obviously, since high school, right? You have it, you know, you've got stories that you're literally carrying around with you. Yeah, but so so why yoga?

Jennifer Saminathen 29:04

Yeah, so I have always been in just like you been conscious about my health, and my fitness. And I was introduced to yoga. I was wild in my, my corporate tech years. And I really, I just wanted to be fit, you know, I was tired of going to the gym, I wanted another means to exercise. And yoga was just the new thing at the time. And I was like, great, there's the other studio and you my apartment, I'll check it out. I went. And this is the thing with yoga, is at the time, I didn't realize that, but now I do is it's not just going into class and leaving. Right? It's, it's truly a mindset. And I have had to learn in that class and through continuous practice. And the reason it's so difficult is you have to mentally shift. So what I learned through through yoga was, hmm, I'm actually seeing the world a lot, much more beautifully. Meaning and it could be as simple as just sitting on my couch and, and drinking my cup of tea. Right? It's something that before I would have rushed through, or I would have just made the team, put it in a cup, and then rush off to work. Now it's like, you know what, you just taught me to slow down and appreciate the world around me and be present. And that's the key is like, now I am much more aware, not just self aware, but aware others. And I'm happier. Like I can say without a doubt. I am the happiest I've ever been in my entire life at this moment. And is just I'm not gonna say that's all because of yoga, but it definitely changed how I see things.

Kaila Tova 31:25

Yeah, I started doing yoga. In the middle of my last job, which was so toxic. And I just in the middle of the day, I would just say, you know, I blocked off my calendar, put a do not book, you know, like, and I just go to the gym and and do yoga. And it was the only thing that kept me at that job for as long as I was able to stand it, you know, just because I was able to go and have that time for myself.

Jennifer Saminathen 31:53

You know? Yes. Yes. And did you? Oh, did you feel different after class? Did you feel this?

Kaila Tova 32:01

Hi. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Were there people that, you know, like yoga teachers that you saw are like friends who had done the same thing? Like, what? What made you say, Okay, so this is giving me you know, the ability to practice is in itself, very fulfilling. And I know, you mentioned earlier that you may not even become a teacher at the end of this. Who knows? Right? So why yoga teacher training?

Jennifer Saminathen 32:34

Yeah. So I have one, a much more flexible schedule. Now, as you can imagine. So I can go to yoga classes twice a day, or go during obscure time, which no one else is in the class, I can go at 10:30am. And it'll be me and four other people in the room. And I was having, I was having a moment in the day where I was just getting lost. You know, in my head, I didn't have a clear sense of what I wanted to do with my life. I felt like I needed to have the answers. My family is calling me and just saying, What are you doing? What's going on? What's your next career change? You know, I didn't have any answer. So my answer was just, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. So I went to class. And having one of those low days. And the class was a CG yoga class, and it was heated. And I remember walking out feeling Wow, I feel so much lighter. My head is clear. And I'm going to go talk to the instructor. So I'm, I don't really talk to the instructor. I know that sounds bad. But that that just wasn't, that wasn't who I am. I didn't, I didn't, I was just like, great. I got my classes, and I'm gonna go change, I'm gonna go home with something, something that day said, just go talk to this instructor. She was so sweet. And she came over adjusted me and I just, we just had this moment. So I, I walk out of the locker room. And I say, Hey, you know, one, thank you for class. Secondly, you know, I, I don't know, if I want to do this. I'm just letting you know. But how do you like being a yoga instructor? I asked her that. She looks at me, her eyes now are just wide. And she says, Jennifer, are you thinking of being a yoga instructor? And I say, I don't know. I'm thinking about it. But I'm still I still don't know. And she says, I will tell you that Yoga has changed my life. And it's completely unlike, like I said earlier, it's altered her perception of just the world, and how she wants to live. And she told me that what you can do is sign up for the training. And go through this journey, right? It's a 200 hour yoga training journey for intense and come out of it. A completely transformed person. You don't have to teach. You know, there are people who go through this training and end up not teaching because they feel it's not important them. However, I haven't heard of anyone that said they regretted just going through training. Those really from that instructor that I decided to talk to that day that just changed my mind. And you know, there's times when I wanted to back out, right, I I had a moment when I was like, Are my finances going in the right direction, right? You got to think about is my investment going towards something that is going to be valuable to me in the future. So I called the instructor however, number at this point, I was like, Hey, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I'm just going to be real, I really don't know how I'm gonna do this. And she I tell her about my fears. I was like I I just I don't know if it's for me, you know, maybe I'm just more of a student of yoga, and I love going in and just being a student and, and learning and I don't know if I want to go through this process. And she talked me off the cliff. Is she that, okay? They're very supportive. She's a mom, and she had that motherly spirit, which I love. And she's like, okay, so I feel very responsible for you, as well. She said to me, because I signed you up yet, because I signed you up. And if you don't want to go through with it up to you, but I know in my gut, that this is something you need to do. I don't know how I know it, but I just feel it in my gut. And what lip also taking the picture? Okay? She may have a biased perspective, right? I had to be like, maybe, right, let's, yeah, I had to be real about that, too. But if you know her, and I've gotten to know her over these last couple months, she is just the sweetest person that, like one of the sweetest people have ever met, where I I don't think that she would just come out and say, You need to be honest. You know, she's not that type of person. She's sweet, but she's also real. Like a coach. You need a coach in your life. Like not a cheerleader all the time. You someone's like, okay, I love you. But here's where you're messing up. And this is what you need to do. So yeah, I like I said, I don't know what's going to happen at the end of this journey. I just know at this moment. I need to commit, see this through and see where it takes me at the end?

Kaila Tova 39:04

Well, I think that's a really great place to end. Like, just like a good writer. You know how to put a button on it. Yeah, that's awesome. That's nice. Jennifer started classes. She would be giving up to weeknights and the majority of her Saturdays for a couple of months to attend. I asked her to keep an audio journal of the experience so that we could debrief once the program was over. I hope you stay tuned to this podcast because as we get deeper into the conversation about why women drop out of the workforce to become yoga teachers, you'll hear how Jennifer story perfectly parallels the ways in which new media and the cultural narrative shaped her decision making process. Join us as we dive into this conversation and stay tuned for the conclusion or maybe the beginning of Jennifer's story at the end of season one. Today's episode was written, recorded and edited and produced by me Kaila Tova. dramaturgical feedback was provided by Kendall Lynch. Music for the intro was written and produced by Mackenzie quantum. To support this independent ad free podcast and help us develop a season two, please consider becoming a patron patrons who pledge $5 a month or more we get exclusive audio including cut audio and longer previously unreleased interviews. Just visit patreon.com slash body brand pod. For show notes and links to guests on today's episode, please visit body brand pod calm. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you a health coach, yoga teacher, personal trainer or wellness entrepreneur? Have you considered becoming one? I'd love to hear your story and potentially share it on a future podcast. Or do you have a question? Well, you can send me a text email, or better yet, record a voice memo and email it to your body your brand at gmail. com where you can connect with me on twitter at body brand pod. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Kaila PrinsJuly 7, 2021