Seven: Publish or Perish
Episode Seven:
Publish or Perish
When professional brand takes over personal life, performing your branded self can feel like a life-or-death proposition.
In this episode, we continue our look at the pitfalls of engaging in what Brooke Erin Duffy calls “aspirational labor,” and we examine the factors that keep us trapped in a performance of success, even when it leads to failure.
Transcript
Sarah Vance 0:00
We still don't get paid what I believe we're worth
Tiana Dodson 0:03
I had secretly been wanting to try health coaching
Carrie Ingoglia 0:06
women have been dropping out
Andi Zeisler 0:08
your body is the next frontier of liberation.
Stefani Ruper 0:12
You have to monetize.
Sarah Banet-Weiser 0:13
We buy into this idea that anyone can do this
Victoria Ferriz 0:16
your body becomes proof
Kelly Diels 0:17
whether or not we're trying to sell a service or product. All women are brands
Brenda Swann 0:21
now I'm a health coach.
Kaila Tova 0:25
My name is Kaila Tova. And this is your body your brand. Episode Seven, publish or perish. Please note, this episode contains strong language more than usual. So if you have small ears nearby, please listen with headphones or wait until you can listen alone. Or, you know, you do you I won't tell you how to parent just consider my due diligence done and enjoy.
Katie Dalebout 0:53
Let's just pretend that money isn't part of this for a moment. And like we all are taken care of, and money doesn't even exist. If I'm being really honest, I would still want to be an entrepreneur, and I would still want to be really successful. And I think that piece that we're not saying that elephant in the room is fame is recognition is you know, our definition, the definition of success needs to be redefined, period. But I think our traditional definition of success include Yes, money, but if again, for this for the sake of this conversation, if we remove money, I think success still means you know, people still want a title change at work, you know, like they still they don't necessarily want the salary bump, I'm sure that they want that too. But if they can't get that they're like, okay, I'll take the title change, I'll take more, more responsibility because that that's good for our egos to just as just as much as the money. And I think it's the same thing with entrepreneurship, like people want the notoriety people want the The New York Times bestseller list or the amount of followers or the Twitter blue circle check thing or, you know, whatever they're striving for, like I think that capitalistic striving would still be there, regardless of money.
Kaila Tova 2:18
This is part two of a two part episode. You just heard Katie Dalebout, a wellness entrepreneur and author of let it out. In our last episode, we started to talk about the dangers of professionalize in our personal lives. And we touched on the sticky issues of presenting yourself authentically in a world that set up to reward a very specific version of what health could look like. In this episode, we're going to continue the conversation and discuss why social capital is just as much of a trap as financial capital, especially in terms of branding the body. I asked Brooke Erin Duffy, Assistant Professor in the Department of Communication at Cornell University, and author of the book not getting paid to do what you love about what she calls aspirational labor.
Brooke Erin Duffy 3:02
So I use the term aspirational labor to describe the investments of time and energy and often capital that young people make in pursuit of a career where they believe they can get paid to do what they love. So aspirational labor is essentially this this future oriented work we do that we expect it will one day pay off. But in the meantime, it requires individuals and mostly the women I was looking at, to both consume and promote their branded goods among their existing networks of friends and contacts.
Kaila Tova 3:42
Brooke's work centers mainly around fashion and lifestyle bloggers, but it intersects very neatly with the World of Wellness, entrepreneurship,
Brooke Erin Duffy 3:50
you know, where admits this moment where supposedly new technologies enable anyone can start their passion project and launch new career and again, you know, become this, this very celebrated self starter careerist. And it's often attributed to digital media and social media sites in particular. So it's really this kind of confluence of changes in the work environment, as well as changes in the technological moment, I was really struck by the interviews I was doing, where people were not pursuing fashion blogs, just because this was kind of a fun hobby, but it was much more like this is the hustle, this is the side job we need to do in order to, you know, get discovered or find a way to make a living in this very precarious career economy. And so what what kind of stood out to me is that the investments they're required to make both in terms of their time and energy, but also, as I said, before, the they're capital, I mean, a lot of these careers require significant investments in one's money. And so that to me, you know, really fit the framework of something that's often been discussed with magazines, which is aspirational consumption. And so to me, I saw this kind of really important historical continuity between aspirational consumption where women in particular have historically been kind of encouraged by the wider marketplace to consume in order to sort of improve your lot in life, to what I was finding where we're encouraged to produce in order to find our, our way in life.
Kaila Tova 5:47
Brenda Swan, the former health coach, and wedding planner dove headfirst into this cycle of production and consumption, once she began transitioning her wedding planning business into selling health coaching online.
Brenda Swann 5:58
When you're in the wedding planning business, you're pretty much word of mouth, you either have crappy weddings, or good weddings. And, you know, I had relied on word of mouth, pretty much the entirety of my business, like all 13 years. And I feel like I never recognized how lucky I was those first few years, that led me into launching my, my wedding planning business. You know, I never really understood the key clients that I had the did sort of just shout from the rooftops, the old fashioned way on Yelp, or whatever. And it kept this. I mean, I was always busy all the time without having to, like put ads in magazines, or, you know, I did like two bridal shows. And then I had to stop because I just didn't couldn't handle the capacity of people that were waiting to have their wedding, you know. So in my mind, I was just putting it out there via social media like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitter was really, really big at you No, in this round for a really long time. I'm sure it still is, I just don't think it is because I don't really mess with it very much more. So I was only doing it that way. But I mean, I was trying hard, like I was doing all the hashtags. I was liking all those, all the, you know, all the fellow people that were speaking, highly commenting, engaging with them, and they were engaging and return and doing, again, retweets and likes and read grams. And so it was just all of that, and I didn't have a blog, that was you know, I had a blog that was for weddings, but I didn't want to put it in there. Because something I mean, obviously, something was doing it. But I so I relied heavily on social media, and getting getting the right likes engaging with the right people, you know, getting getting a Twitter takeover for the day, or something like that, with it massive, massive amounts of pictures, like I was constantly taking pictures, constantly doing little videos constantly, you know, tying myself in with whoever in the industry that I needed to that I felt like needed to. And I think that was the biggest way that I thought, especially because that's what all of our programs that we went into said just keep it up, keep doing what you're doing. That's exactly the only you know, that's the one and only way that's where people were looking. So I very heavily relied on that. And then I did do a few paid ads, not ads, but paid likes, or what have you when people go there's no such thing. Yeah, there is I you know, what the hell, I you know, are the paid little things that just gave you a little more exposure with you, when you had an interaction with someone that was bigger in the, in the system, if that makes it and I made it Oh, I made the point of going to, you know, different symposiums or different book signings things of that nature with certain with specific people so that it was easy to tag them, and my photos and in my media, so that, you know, everyone else could see like, Oh, look at me, I know what I'm talking about. And I I could noodle with the right people.
Kaila Tova 8:59
As we become a aspirational consumers of diet culture, we then post and produce the same aspirational signals for others. And when others pick up on those signals, and we gain influence that consumption slash production is just reinforced. And that reinforcement leads to more influence and on and on. And the aura borrows that we discussed in episode one for Brenda that required a focus on her actual consumption, the things she ate the product, she purchased the pieces of her identity that could be bought. And on the way those consumables influenced how she produced her identity and body online. I spoke with Kaitlyn Aaron, a sales funnel coach and copy wizard about the effects of developing our identities on public platforms through personal branding. When you're working for like Pepsi or whatever, yeah, you got a market like that's a large corporation. But when we're talking about like you and me, and we're trying to sell ourselves on the internet, is it a good thing?
Caelin Aerin 9:53
You know, I think it is and isn't like you said it is this sort of more complicated dynamic, there is this distance between selling yourself as a person and then selling a commercial product. And when you are on the internet, when you're selling services, it is very much a matter of selling yourself because it's the same as applying for any job. If you know people like you, and you've got 75 to 80% of the right requirements, you know, they're probably going to hire you. So there is this sort of weird dynamic wherein you need to sell yourself if you want to do this, but it also can become oppressive. And I find it becomes oppressive when we start constraining ourselves in order to sell ourselves. So it's when you're when you put limitations on who yourself and who you are and how you present yourself because it needs to align with your brand. You need to be on brand all the time. You know, if you're more serious consultant say you're like a b2b sales consultant or something. You know, you're not sort of a situation your your brand's going to be more corporate and more straight laced, even if you aren't like that all the time. And then what happens is there's Oh, well, you know, I need to lock down all my personal stuff, I can't see my vacation photos, I can't really be me in the same way you would be in a job situation where you would have those personal ties with your coworkers. So it's that that limitation I find is where it really becomes difficult because we start presenting a brand that's not not truly who we are. Or it's a sanitized version, because we think that's what will be more socially acceptable.
Kaila Tova 11:43
Even though our personal platforms have morphed from Digital scrapbooks and repositories for memories, good and bad, to publishing platforms for public consumption, because they started out as personal platforms, there's a weird gray area between authentic self and quote, unquote, quote, authentic self for the purpose of selling. And the public facing selves that we curate, in the name of capital, both financial and social, can begin to look and feel less like our true selves, and more like the aspirational and often stereotypical gender norms that will help us sell aspiration to others. Here's Brooke, Aaron Duffy again,
Brooke Erin Duffy 12:20
a few of my colleagues kind of do some really interesting work where they trace this whole narrative of being kind of a an authentic personal brand to the early 20th century like Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. My colleague, Jeff pulley says, you know, a lot of the the narratives about it's, you know, a lot of the narratives that Rouse us all to be personal brands can be found in earlier consumer culture where, you know, you sort of project to this image of genuineness and caring. But what was different was that advice was really pitch to business people, and you know, at the time businessmen, the jitter, there, but with the rise of social media, everyone, including my students, including myself, we're all encouraged to brand ourselves and translate ourselves through the commodity Mark marketplace into a personal brand. But of course, this this personal branding does not get deployed evenly. And so, you know, what we find on these social media sites is very different notions based on the platform, but also based on who is encouraged to be a personal brand. And so that's where I think some really interesting or perhaps problematic, gendered elements play out where the types of personal brands women are encouraged to be tend to relate more to the visual elements. And so, you know, thinking about the differences on a platform like Instagram, which is incredibly visually oriented, and it's increasingly saturated by so called influencers, which is a term I don't really like, but it seems like it's taken off, which is a you know, a highly gendered market. That's not to say there aren't male influencers, or there's not diversity, but if you think of who's really populating the aspirational Instagram economy, it tends to be young women who are encouraged to present themselves in highly visible ways and in ways that conform to a lot of normative stereotypes for femininity.
Kaila Tova 14:53
And in wellness. These normative stereotypes for femininity include trading the body like currency. Here's a little more of my conversation with Victoria Furies, the former bodybuilder and fits bow documentarian. One of the things that I'm particularly interested in is this idea that your body is your social capital. And sometimes your social capital becomes attached to your actual, like monetary capital. So for example, when I became a bodybuilder, part of my decision, the initial impetus was social capital. My boyfriend at the time told me that I wasn't worth anything unless I looked a certain way in, you know, different words, but there was that he hinted at what I should look like by telling me his favorite fitness model was Jamie Easton. And he loved the way she looked, and also have I considered dead lifting. So I did, I looked up her, I looked at her workouts, I looked up her meal plans, and I followed them to a tee. And by the end of the three months when I supposed to see him again, because we were long distance at that point, I didn't look like Jamie's and so I broke up with him, because I was afraid of him. But what happened is, after I followed him, like a Muscle and Fitness hers challenge that was going to be my way of looking like Jamie. People started telling me that I could really do this as a career, you know, Hey, have you thought about becoming a personal trainer so that you could teach me how to look like you have, you know, and then I started really reading those magazines with an eye toward the people who are doing this for living, right, people who were getting sponsorships, the people who had affiliate deals, the people who were being profiled who were being flown around the country to judge competitions, and suddenly it became about the monetary capabilities. Suddenly, I didn't have to be a failing artist in New York City. And I didn't have to be a retail worker in Boca Raton tone. I could be a world renowned bodybuilder fitness competition person, and like make my money by being sponsored by some pre workout or a, you know, a clothing brand. And I see this across, it's not just bodybuilding. I see it as, like, go on Instagram, if you do any kind of body sport, yoga pole dance, like sucker. Who cares, whatever it is, the people who are making money are the ones with affiliate deals, sponsorships, and tons and tons and tons of followers.
Victoria Ferriz 17:30
It's a lot harder to make money doing that nowadays, because now everybody is, you know, like with social media, like I interviewed a ICP Pro, Roxy Beccles, and she talked about how when she started using social media, when social media like Instagram first came out, she was she was doing that she was using social media to market herself and her services for personal training and stuff. But now everybody's doing it. So you know, it's not that rare. And now, you know, awareness. A knowledge of how to get this quote unquote, perfect body is so much more out there than it used to be. So in some ways, it's much easier to become that person. So really, the gains of being sponsored are it's all an illusion, because these people most a lot of these people really aren't making any money, you do have your rare exceptions, like your page halfway through, I mean, I don't know how much money she's making. But I mean, she's, she's sponsored by a pretty big by a pretty big supplement company. But other people, you know, like your, you know, Joseph James, who just have a six pack and are, are getting sponsored by, you know, supplement brand number 1057. They're not making any money off of it, because there's no money to be made, it takes it takes a lot to make money off of that. And many times, with, they're only getting paid in supplements. And the supplements are garbage. I mean, a lot of there's there's no regulation for for what goes into the supplement. So it's really, I think a lot of it is an illusion to pretend that you, you are someone to pretend that you're instantly like you're an instant, famous, you know, fitness person, when I was training for my bodybuilding competition, my my coach my team, they would hold the seminars, where, you know, we would talk about making making a living out of your body pretty much and, you know, learning to use social media to brand yourself. And, you know, some also like, multi level marketing stuff, but you know, how to how to get picked up by fitness magazines, you know, that you had to hire your own photographers, and, and the now and, you know, you, you, you have to build your own. Because my coach, she had done that to herself, she, she kind of built her own platform by hiring photographers, if, if nobody was getting her to to. And nobody was taking her her picture, any magazine was taking a picture, she would hire the photographers and take her own pictures to make herself elevated to have these cool pictures. Because you know, Instagram's very, I mean, it's all images. So duh, of course, it's going to be very image oriented. But yeah, I mean, this is kind of like we were told, and then of course, after your your competition, you go and you take your you go take your professional pictures, right after competition to, to around competition time, because that's when you're looking your best. So you know, you want those as proof to get clients. And, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different tactics that are in which you can make money off of your body in which people feel that this is going to save them.
Kaila Tova 20:35
For wellness entrepreneurs, the idea of building your own platform is in some ways the draw, becoming the CEO of your own business is as simple as finding that platform and then taking the very public risk of stepping up onto it. But Caitlin Aaron warns us what happens when the market asks us to view that platform as a pedestal.
Caelin Aerin 20:55
So many coaches, the way we're taught to sell is not is really not conducive to what they want to do, because you're taught to sell by setting yourself up as an authority. And there's this superiority complex that goes along with it, essentially, you're on this pedestal, and we, we create brands, like we were talking about earlier, our brands reinforce that pedestal, so it's not you. So essentially, you're standing above your customer, and you're down on them metaphorically and saying, Hey, you know, I can bring you up to this level, or, you know, you're pulling them up instead of standing side by side with them. One of the reasons I've built my sales funnel model the way I have and the reason it's been successful is because I actually started out selling luggage. And I was in this really narrow little mom and pop store in a mall. And we didn't actually have a room on the floor to display all of our suitcases. So we had, we had these cubbies built into the back wall where we would, you know, put our suitcases side by side. And there was it was so near I actually had to stand shoulder to shoulder with my customers couldn't like look them in the eye. And as they were saying, Okay, well, you know, we travel this many times a year, we do this sort of travel, I'm looking at this wall in front of me and picking out suitcases that will suit their needs. And it's a very different energetic feel, to the way a lot of us are taught to sell where it is, Oh, well. I'm above you. Right. I'm the one who knows better. I have all this knowledge. Let me let me bring you up to Milo.
Kaila Tova 22:24
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And what's interesting about that, too, is that on the internet, you don't actually have to be good at anything to be considered an expert, like, as long as you know how to set up a brand, right. So as long as you know how to pick the right colors, to put the calls to action and to share your story, you could be at any point in your journey. And you can set yourself up as an authority as long as people, as long as your words, convince people that you are slightly ahead of where they are. And I will say, you know, full disclosure, I was still in recovery when I became a health coach. Because I was still I was still very, very obsessed with optimizing my body my most popular blog posts on my website right now the ones that continue to generate the most traffic to my website, and I've only left them up, because I want to be transparent about my journey are the ones about like how I was trying to supplement my mentor Rhea away, instead of eating more food. Right? Um, so, you know, it's, it's interesting that it also frustrates me because I look at a lot of the health bloggers, who we we come to know, like and trust because they're, they exercise a lot. And they post pictures of their food, right? Often they are very, very sick, and very disordered. But we cast them as authority, because they have presented themselves as standing on this pedestal. There's a very popular health blogger who I had become friends with and was very concerned about. She is severely anorexic. And people continue to click on her recipes, which funds the advertisers and the affiliate deals and has convinced her in a lot of ways her audience has kind of marketed to her that she is the expert, and therefore she refuses to accept help. And won't go to treatment, because she can't be that sick if people believe that she's an expert.
Caelin Aerin 24:26
Yeah. Yeah, and just going back to image for a second, I love that you're bringing this up, because, you know, she is convinced her she's convinced this group of people that she's an expert, and by fitting the physical ideal of an expert, and then they respond to that and reinforce it for her, which is creates this negative feedback loop, which is, you know, absolutely what what happens when you can market well, and you sort of play this, play this almost like, among newer business owners, entrepreneurs and coaches, you'll see a lot of talk about imposter syndrome. And I think a lot of this happens, because, well, like because, you know, the advice they're given right off the bat is set yourself up as an expert, when they already know they're not yet experts. They know they're beginners, but they haven't to help someone so they can theoretically get this thing started. But there's, you know, they've got imposter syndrome, partly because they're, they're playing this role that they don't yet feel like they actually inhabit. And that feeds into this entire cycle.
Kaila Tova 25:34
And what happens, and you're right, it's totally a negative feedback loop. And this happens in every single niche, where I think we're at this point, we've hit this inflection point with the internet, where the people creating content, which is a word that I despise, because as a writer, I do not create content, I create writing, you know, content is just filler. The content creators of the world, which is you know, it's that's my b2b title. I'm a content producer. We feel like we're actually at the mercy of people psychology instead of in control of people's psychology, which is not the truth. But so we've created a negative feedback loop where we say, Oh, well, people don't click, if I write it like this. So I have to give them this, because that's all they'll do. And so then people continue to click on it, because that is what triggers their psychology, right? And then it's like, see, I couldn't do anything about it. I got, you know, I have to continue to pander to people's psychology. So it's the same thing that happens in the body image world where it's like, well, I know, I could write this radical thing. But if I do, then, you know, people aren't going to come to my website anymore. People are I'm at their mercy. It's not It's not me. It's their fault that I can't give them more.
Caelin Aerin 26:53
Yeah, you see a lot of copywriters and like, you know, people in my sphere, who, you know, we're constantly looking at marketing psychology and behavior and searching for feedback, because you're right, it's like, what will they click on? And, you know, in the case of your b2b example, it's like, well, you know, what, if I don't get those clicks, I may lose my job. In case of, you know, the healthcare industry, for the coaches, it's like, well, if I don't get those clicks, you know, I lose my status. As an expert, I lose my income, I lose everything. So it is very much tied into capitalism, because it's a matter of we need to monetize it.
Kaila Tova 27:26
When you set yourself up as an authority, you have to project success in order to get people to trust you. But there's no guarantee that becoming a health entrepreneur is going to pay off. In fact, it's a lot harder to make it work these days than online marketing coaches would have you think, to give you an example, I asked Brenda, about what happened when she bought into her own brand as a health entrepreneur. So you you are posting all these pictures in these videos, and you're trying to show yourself being the person that you want to sell. Yeah, right. What does that do for you emotionally? mentally? Like, what's what's going through your head at this point,
Brenda Swann 28:04
Holy Mother of God? Well, I mean, the first thing that was sort of something I hadn't, I didn't know how to deal with was that, you know, fast food incident, like, Oh, you eat this, because I had built my brand, Brenda Swan is, you know, whatever, award winning winning planner, and now I'm a health coach. I'm holistic, by the way, holistic health coach, so I'm not selling you anything, I'm just telling you my services, I'm selling you the ability to come talk to me, and I'm going to tell you how to lead your life perfectly from beginning to end, you know, beginning at the wedding, by the way, not beginning. And I swear that because you didn't exist before that. You know, we laugh, but that, sadly, is exactly what's communicated out there to most people. Anyway, right back to how did that affect me. So that was huge. That was huge, because the not affected something I was starting to take for granted. Like, now, my husband could not be seen with me out eating. So he would be the one that if I felt lazy, I didn't, I forgot to meal prep, you know, whatever, I would send him off to go get the food and I wouldn't go with him. You know, it's like, No, you need to go get the food, you need to go get whatever, you know, I don't want anyone. I don't want anyone to see me out and about in like, you know, or we would have to drive like an hour away. Because I was only going to go out to eat an hour away where I could potentially not know anybody. And I had the least amount of clients. So I didn't have to totally dress up but I still have to dress up. So it became like this extra burden of who I had to be and how I had to be. And then there was another another event. It was a charity event at my CrossFit gym. As a matter of fact, it was a charity event where you know, we work out hard and then we party hard because you know, that's what you do you work at work hard party hard thing, right. And add that event, I happen to let myself environment, some alcohol. And and another one of the fellow athletes, that was also happened to be a client because I somehow managed to get them to come into my gym, and get and get extra money because when I brought them to my gym, then my gym was like all excited. And then here you go, you get either money off your thing, or you get a cut of their contracts, you know, whatever. And then I happen to get myself you know, let myself be a little tipsy. And then they looked at me like, I've never seen you like this before. This is so funny. I'm going to take a picture.
Kaila Tova 30:27
Oh, no,
Brenda Swann 30:29
to which I suddenly sobered up and flipped my lid. Like you are not allowed to take my picture. This is a sacred space, blah, blah, blah. And then I start I just went on this like pitch fest of how dare you? Because what's what was it and I didn't recognize it at that moment, I probably didn't even recognize it for months. That what I it was fear, fear that you're going to break my pretty perfect picture of my brand, and of who I am. And people are not going to, you know, think that I'm legitimate in that I you know that I actually know what I'm talking about. Now here I you know, not drunk off my ass but drunk enough to where you think it's funny. And you're going to take a picture and I don't look like myself. And it's like, and then you're going to go put it on social media because you know, oh, look, it's funny, Brenda, you know, Brenda was drunk and this thing. And it I mean, I remember being angry or upset, like it hunted me for weeks, I avoided their calls, even though they were my frickin client. I had my staff deal with them, you know, because I was like, nope, nope, they're so rude. They wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't even let me see it. And then I got obsessed with hunting down their social media to make sure this picture didn't get posted anywhere because I couldn't remember whether they actually deleted it or not. And then they got paranoid over that. Maybe they deleted it, but it's still in their deleted folder on their iPhone, where they still have to double delete it. So it's gone forever. Right? You know, and you don't realize when it's happening, like the fear, the anger, the anxiety, you know, again, with with my husband having to go out and buy food for us when we wanted to have a date night and not cook. here's the here's another kicker sometimes when I would meal prep and my meal prep wasn't perfect, because I would always post my meal prep food every Sunday. So it wasn't perfect. I would style my food the little bit that I did get a chance to meal prep because God forbid I had things to do weddings run, you know, whatever. I was style, my meal prep and like do you just like women taking you know, angled pictures for their better sides, I will do the same thing with the minimal amount of food for my fridge. What so I still had a post to put up with my fit fam meal prep for the win, you know, healthy eating, clean eating, ready for ready for anything. And and again, at that point, you don't notice sort of this facade that you're creating and how hard it is to keep up with that. Does that make sense?
Kaila Tova 32:47
Absolutely. Makes sense.
Brenda Swann 32:49
Oh my god, it was I thinking about it right now is kind of making me a little teary eyed because I didn't see it at the time. I didn't at all I did. And if you would have said to me, you're you're a little obsessed. You're a little crazy. I would have been like you're stupid. You don't understand me. You're obviously a fat lazy cow. And you don't care about your and you're gonna die of cancer. Just FYI. Like that is like the worst thing ever.
Kaila Tova 33:14
Yeah. Yeah. Like,
Brenda Swann 33:17
it's a monster. How could anybody wants to hire me? Like, yeah, well, this is a shameful laugh. Right? Yeah.
Kaila Tova 33:26
No, but it's, it's. It's so real, though. Brenda. That's the thing. It's so real. And it's like I was that monster at some point, too. And I see these monsters still existing on social media and teaching other people how to become that monster, and how to embrace it and love it, and believe in it to the point where it is solely $10,000 a month. Yeah,
Brenda Swann 33:50
teaching other people how to do it.
Kaila Tova 33:52
Right. Well, but that's the thing. And that's the thing that that worries me is that so it wasn't just about not getting cancer. And it wasn't just about fat phobia, right. There's another part of it, which is, I can't make money. If people see me gain weight. I can't make money if people see me eat a roast beef sandwich, right? And it's the money thing. It's like I harp on this, and I think a lot of people think I'm crazy. But it is capitalism. That is a huge part of the problem. Yes. The health coaches that we see being thin and healthy, quote unquote, right? Because we don't know if they're actually healthy. Right? Um,
Brenda Swann 34:32
there we are. Quiet. You don't know.
Kaila Tova 34:34
Right? Right. Exactly. But these people who are enacting the behaviors that are being rewarded are being rewarded. They're living on their own terms. They're not having to work a day job. They get to create online products and pay their VA in the Philippines to make something for them. And then they can make tons and tons and tons of money and frolic all day and take these great pictures. Yes. And I want that. Do you want that to their audiences want that too. And so, people, I see this happening across all aspects of body image, right? It's not just it's not just paleo. It's not just vegan. Like I didn't see this in the body positive space. Right. Right. Right. It's like people start copycatting in order to sell to their own audience so they can make money. It's not just about the health, we say it's just about the health. It's not just about the health. If it were just about the health, then we probably wouldn't need to be quite so restrictive. Or we wouldn't need to perform it so much.
Brenda Swann 35:35
Right? Exactly.
Kaila Tova 35:37
It's the performative authenticity, this this perfectly styled meal prep, because you did authentically prep your meals, right? You
Brenda Swann 35:45
just perfect enough. They weren't as good as my ones from the prior weeks. They weren't no and there. And by the way, it was only quick. And I was not going to tell people that I was super exhausted, super tired, barely got a chance to go to farmers market because I had to work a wedding the night before, like midnight, and you know, where I had to deal with things. I have a life. I have a life, human being. And I know weird, right? And a job and But no, God forbid, God forbid that Brenda stepped out without mascara, or didn't have the frickin most perfect, delicious looking meal prep ever. Huh?
Kaila Tova 36:20
Yeah. And it's, it's a terrifying way to live. And it's, it scares me because it's becoming normalized. You know,
Brenda Swann 36:28
dear, it's only terrifying way to live if you don't know how to do it.
Kaila Tova 36:32
Yeah, that's true.
Brenda Swann 36:34
That is true. That was facetious, in case it did not the tone did not carry.
Kaila Tova 36:42
For Brenda living her brand, quote unquote, authentically, actually meant changing her life to better match her marketing. This is not uncommon, and yet so many coaches still strive to show themselves as quote unquote, authentically as they can online. In my conversation with Caitlyn, we just just how difficult it is to pin down what makes marketing authentic. I've found that so many coaches online, are authentic look at my mess, specifically, in ways to leverage people's desire, right, like, here's a picture of me and my cellulite. Give me a yes, Queen, please. You know, here's a picture of my body roles. I'm doing this because other coaches are doing that and getting more likes, you know, and it's see I'm not perfect. See, I'm just like, you see, I'm still an expert. But we can also stand shoulder to shoulder wink, wink. And the problem is, it's not that that isn't authentic. And it's not that that can't be good. It's just that you have brand defied your imperfections, right, or your or your perfection, because those could just be your perfectionist, right? That could just be you. Right? Yeah,
Caelin Aerin 37:55
it's, it's a performative type of authenticity. And that's what when it stops being authentic, authenticity is one of those things I find, it's very hard to perform it in groups. It can, absolutely does come across as you know, being played up, especially when it is it is marketing, because it's that one directional, it's coming from me to you, there's no feedback, there's no reciprocity with it. If you look at the difference between like, like you mentioned, Instagram photos, or something like that, versus somebody actually being in a room with you, and you seeing on the couch with their cellulite and their body rolls, eating a cupcake, you know, the context is inherently what makes it performative. Right, because when you actually have that in person moment, that's when it changes, you get people who are, you know, various and outgoing. And, you know, you'll have these verbal slip ups or make some sort of mistake if they're in, you know, if they're filming this for their Facebook Live, you know, it can't feel put upon versus if they're doing it in a room, we're there networking, and all of a sudden, it's just like, oops, yeah, that's me. That's what you get. And yeah, and it's a matter of I find, I find it's almost like a chicken in the egg question. If does the authenticity come first, or does the brand brand comes first, that's when the authenticity feels performative.
Kaila Tova 39:25
being authentic means not flaunting your authenticity, or at least not leaning on it in a highly performative way. In your marketing rhetoric, it's the thing you show not tell. But isn't showing yourself, you know, selecting or curating a version of yourself that you want to show the world when you create a brand image? Isn't that still performative? When you put it out there online? And what happens when you change or your business changes, or the culture changes? What happens when your core audience gets bored? Or you get bored? If you are your brand? How do you separate yourself from your income? I talked about this with pace Smith, the pathfinding coach whom we met in the last episode,
Pace Smith 40:05
the question to ask yourself is like, why do you give a shit about to being authentic? And don't just say, because being authentic is good, or because honesty is good, or whatever, bullshit, like there's something else going on. And unlike, and I think a lot of it is the same thing that I mentioned earlier about your, your passion can be a downside, instead of a plus, because it forces you to do everything in the perfect way that matters the most, and is getting 100% of what you care about, you know, like, I do not say the following thing often, but take a page from big business. Like, you know, when you want to buy a, like a pen, you don't care who made the pen, you just care that it works. And so like, yes, sure, I understand that having a personal brand is very convenient, because then it means that you get to, like you already have a brand. It's kind of sort of you, but it's also dangerous, like we've been talking about. And so you've got to have that distinction between who you are and what your business is. Is the pen authentic? is a ballpoint pen authentic? Who gives a flying? Fuck does it work? Does it help people? That's the question you need to be asking. And like, yes, lying is harmful. That's bad. But, you know, that's, but that's not what really people are really talking about when they're talking about being authentic. It's usually like, am I showing all of who I truly am? Well, if I'm over here suffering, and you have something that can help me, I don't give a shit about who you truly are. taught me is, don't make, you can't keep that authentic for me.
Kaila Tova 41:56
But think back to Episode Three, when Daniel Pink talked about the concept of seller beware, you can't just sell a product anymore. I mean, anyone can get a product or service or even information anywhere. People want to know what your brand stands for what you stand for. And the more obviously you buy into your own brand, the more easily others can find you buy into. So back when I was paleo because I was also paleo. After I was vegan, I had to find the next magic here. And you know, the in the Paleo world, like you can define who every single person is by how they eat, right? So like, there's like, oh, there's the keto guy, and oh, there's the this person Oh, there's that. But like you, you know who that person is? their brand. And what was interesting is, as I've stayed in that community over time, especially those who got successful on their brand, they were kinda like two different people. There were the people who became Oh, I am the Quito guy, right? who's like, who you didn't have to say their name. And you just knew, like, I'm the grass fed URL, or whatever. And then there were the people who just transition their websites to their names, you know. And it's interesting, because I think in both cases, it becomes a huge trap. Because there were the people who like they became so their brands that you literally can't say anything else, except keto, the keto guy, right. Like you literally can you have to go deeper and further because your audience gets bored over time, if you keep talking about the same thing, right? Especially, you know, because with coaching and things like that, we don't want our audiences to go away because then we stopped making money. So we have to keep going further and deeper and, and getting crazier. But then there's the people who become their their first and last name calm. And it just becomes like they just are a business. Yeah, at that point. Like they, they lose their sense of identity, like find them to buy. They're stuff. That makes any sense.
Pace Smith 44:02
Yeah, yeah, they're both they're they're both easy trap to fall into.
Kaila Tova 44:05
Yeah. And it's just like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's frustrating, because, you know, I don't know, I don't know how to better articulate to people like that, they just need to step back that you're not a business, you know, you are not a business yourself is not a business, you can't be a business, because if you change your business fails, like that is,
Pace Smith 44:33
yeah, and for like, like, sure, maybe that can work for some people. But for us, by which I mean, like you and me, and like you who's listening to this, like, we are like, we're gonna change if you're in. If you're into any kind of self work, or personal growth, or even like, intro fucking section, you're going to change. And so like, if you create a business plan that secretly relies on you, not changing your business plan is going to fail.
Kaila Tova 45:05
Yes, yes. Oh, my God, I love it. And then on the other end of that, there are the people who bucked change to the point where it becomes damaging. So, you know, when I was recovering from my eating disorder, part of my whole thing was like, I'm going to be the Paleo recovery coach, right, I'm going to, but what happens is, you know, when paleo stops, quote, unquote, working, right, because in my brain at that point, is still very disordered. I still hadn't really understood health and every size, etc. So it was like, Oh, well, I'm not as thin as I should be. I'm so therefore, I'm not as healthy as I should be. I guess I'm gonna have to go further. I guess I'm gonna have to go deeper, I'm guess I'm gonna have to go harder. And so I was gonna, I was getting more and more restricted in the ways in which I ate. Because I had to prove I'm paleo first, right, my identity is this thing that cannot change. And even, even as my I started learning about Health at Every Size, like intersection of feminism slapped me in the face, and I'm sitting here going, but I can't eat bread, you know? And it was like, why am I doing this, I'm going to lose everything. And there was there was a an inflection point where I was like, I can change or I won't, you know, and that is, that is concerning, you know, because I remember speaking to a woman who is actually an anorexic, and her blog is all about healthy living. And she refuses to stop it, because she's, quote, unquote, helping so many people while she is dying, like literally dying, and she will not go into treatment, she will not take down her blog, she will not help herself. But she is running another marathon to prove to her followers that she is healthy.
Pace Smith 46:48
And that is just a really clear, extreme version of what so many of us are doing to ourselves in a more subtle way. When when we identify with our businesses, we are we're killing ourselves more slowly. But no less lethally.
Kaila Tova 47:07
Brenda's brand was lethal, in the metaphorical sense, in that it very quickly poison one of the most important relationships in her life.
Brenda Swann 47:16
My obsession with being perfect and trying to solve everybody's problems, and everything always being pixel perfect. And whatever, that killed my relationship with my husband, it drove him literally out the door with how Actually, he wasn't even secondary in my life. At that point, I think he was like, sixth or seventh, down by hashtag, you know, quota that I had to do. And really, really, I have been with you this entire time building both businesses, you know, and this is, this is what our life is, like, I what. And I mean, there was so much more, I mean, literally, neglect, you know, and I hate admitting this, and I hate talking about it. And I probably haven't really talked to anybody past, like, maybe my mom and my therapist, and maybe like, a best day or two, that, you know, watching me break down, when he just said, All right, really, that's what you're choosing. I'm out, you know, and he went out the door. And he went out the door. And I was like, yeah, whatever, he'll come back later. And he didn't come back. He did not come back later. And I had to choose between continuing to build this facade of a business. And, or I had to choose, I have to say, the relationship I have with my husband, the man that I married the man that has always been there for me, he literally just disappeared and and it was a good year to a year and a half where I was like, Okay, wait a minute, I'm there has got to be a better way to make money, there has got to be a better way to be me and spread a message. And oh, my God, how is everybody else good at this? And I'm not.
Kaila Tova 49:04
Here's the thing. Everybody else is not good at this. Brooke Aaron Duffy explains.
Brooke Erin Duffy 49:10
That's like the million dollar question. What does it take to succeed? And you're absolutely right, that in a lot of cases, it's someone who started early. And of course, there's people who, who have been successful through luck. I mean, that's the way this this whole system works. Like if absolutely nobody made it, you know, it, the structure would kind of implode. But for the most part, the people who quote unquote, made it had a combination of existing privilege in various ways and kept at it for you know, not just weeks, but but months, and, and years. And so, you know, I think there's this narrative that we see all the time in popular culture where, oh, I started this YouTube channel, or I started this Instagram account. And, you know, I got discovered and all of a sudden, I had hundreds of thousands of followers. And it's a very seductive narrative, of course, but but the reality is, from the people I spoke with is no, I had a job in a different industry. And I was sort of moonlighting as a content creator. For years before I was able to go out on my own or, you know, I had family support, who were able to enable me to participate in this hobby for years. Or while even though I positioned myself as an amateur, I actually like worked in the media space for a decade and had a good a Rolodex, but nobody has Rolodex anymore. It had a whole network of contacts, where I could kind of use my existing pool of networks to to make this and so I think the, the myth of being a social media entrepreneur, digital entrepreneur, is quite different than the reality for, for most people. And I was really struck by, I guess, the less glamorous aspects of this. And so, you know, again, being an entrepreneur is very sexy and seductive. But, you know, besides the fact that it's very precarious and unstable. It was a lot of people who said, they're spending like days and nights on email, and on the phone, and, you know, doing the the type have work that a lot of us do, and don't see is as glamorous at all. And, again, the promotional element, I think a lot of people were deeply ambivalent, about this pressure to engage in self marketing all the time. And one of my favorite quotes was from a content creator, who said that, you know, when she, she described herself as a full time freelancer, because she had the blog, and she was doing a TV channel, and a radio show, and so sort of Jackson, Jill's of all trades. But she said, in order to be successful in this field, that you don't have to be the best. She said, you have to be good enough and well marketed. And I think that was so telling, because a lot of people pursue creative careers, because they think they're going to be communicating with audiences and, and sharing their, their stories and actually, you know, engaging in the sort of creative or artistry, but what they're often doing is promoting themselves and a lot of people don't enjoy that. So I think sort of one of these concealed elements of the job that deserves further attention.
Kaila Tova 53:21
Oh, for sure. Although, on top of that, you know, the with the industry of marketers, marketing to marketers, who glamorize the the act of being busy all the time. You know, it's once you get into it, you start to delude yourself, because I feel like what happens and this is speaking from personal experience is you you develop these parasocial relationships with the influencer, the the people that you feel like, you know, because they're sharing their quote, unquote, authentic lives online. And, you know, it looks, you know, carefree and sexy and wonderful, and everybody's free to do yoga all day. And then, you know, and then you start to build your own business, and you realize that it is a business. And you start to question Okay, well do I really want to be on social media, 24 seven, scheduling my post through buffer, Hootsuite, or whatever. And so then you find the marketers marketing to marketers who themselves are so gung ho about every single new project, here's how you get to Inbox Zero was literally posts, I would read and feel, you know, thrilled about. And so then there's this glamorization of the hustle in and of itself. So after you've made the investment of yourself in somebody else's business, and then you start to see yourself in that position, do then start to invest in the work that it takes. And once you're so deep in because you've spent 10s of thousands of dollars, and hours and hours and hours, you feel like you can't even leave, because at this point, if you did, it would all be sunk cost, quote, unquote, for nothing, right? And it's very difficult, I've noticed to separate yourself from an identity that you have invested money in you know, and shown other people that you've invested money and let me be clear because because there is this idea that if you do the work, you should be rewarded for it. And so if you didn't do the work correctly, then the reason you're not getting rewarded is because you just weren't good enough you didn't work hard enough and that in at least in American culture is you know the number one sin know your your soul so right I mean, you know, this
Brooke Erin Duffy 55:41
you know, to give up on on your personal entrepreneur, your venture is no longer just giving up on your profession. It's it's giving up on your personal because we're at this moment when the personal and professional are so deeply hitched to one another. And so I think that's when it becomes really, really difficult because you know, the, the larger issue that a lot of us, myself included are facing in this social media moment is we are encouraged to always be out there always be showcasing our lives on social media. And so it becomes idealize to have this personal professional melding, but but what that Eclipse is, is the fact that, you know, there's, there's no time off, can't take a break from this because, you know, you you take a break, and there's the risk of losing audiences and clients are an advertiser's and so you know, what that amounts to is everyone is just how all the time.
Kaila Tova 57:01
If you recall, Katie del bout from our last episode, she mentioned that she didn't like talking about having a full time job because it made her worry that her audience wouldn't see her as a successful influencer. She a person who was earning a full time income felt shame about admitting it, and fear that her podcast advertisers would drop out if they thought she wasn't the complete hashtag boss babe have her own self made company shame. The equal and opposite reaction to empowerment and a neoliberal framework drives so many of us to continue to invest in our self brands, long after they become detrimental to our health, wealth and happiness, we begin to feel that we must publish or perish, even if the publishing itself is what's hastening our financial or emotional demise. Here's more of my conversation with paste Smith.
You know, when we talk about brand, when we talk about identity tied to brand like, well, I am selling body image so I have to act out body image on the internet all the time, right, I'm selling weight loss, I have to act out weight loss on the internet all the time, I'm selling essential oils, I have to act out essential oil loving on the internet all the time.
Pace Smith 58:15
And I by case I'm selling follow your heart. And so I have to Yeah, follow my heart on the internet all the time. Exactly. That seems like freedom, it's a cage where the bars are labeled freedom.
Kaila Tova 58:25
Yes, exactly. Anytime, anything that you are selling on the internet, when it is yourself, right, anything that you're selling anywhere, but on the internet, it's just easier to turn it into a product right, because you can share the images of it, you can stage it, you can write it you can do whatever it is you need to do. But anytime you yourself are the product or you yourself model the product it becomes it becomes a prison because you are asking for capital in return on capital being social capital people liking you, loving you, following you, whatever, or monetary capital financial capital, which is when they pay for your product or service, right, or they pay to sponsor you to continue doing that thing. And what happens is if if at any point, you change, you risk losing all your capital. Right? Right. And so that is that is the prison. So even if it's something that you love, if you change, it will ruin you. Like when I was a vegan Oh my goodness. So, you know, this is not an argument about whether veganism is good or bad. But for me personally, it was killing me. And when I changed, I was scared to death because I had modeled veganism for a year. Right? And it was like,
Pace Smith 59:47
and it's, it's easy to turn that into internal shame. Yes. Because like, it's not. Because once you practice, like, oh, being this is really important. What you what you're teaching yourself, is that I've got to be this. It's not like, we're having these rational conscious arguments about like, Well, perhaps if I choose to do something different, I might lose social or financial capital. Right, right. It's a internalized, and it feels like shame.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:27
When it was all said and done, not because it's all said and done. But when I had to, like make the hard shift, because at that, you know, you use a lot of the stuff in this realm came slowly. You know what I mean? It came very, very slowly. You know, even that the postings, the hashtags, the friends, the events, this, they're all these things, like, they all kind of creep up on you slowly and you have to keep doing it, you have to keep doing it. And again, you get the positive reinforcement, you keep doing it. This didn't come that way. Because I never saw it, of course, his perspective or anyone's perspective other than my own. You know, that seems so brash. And then I had to figure out really fast in those documents I put together of how I was going to run my healthy business and how I'm going to take clients at this time in this time and wedding clients here, you know, I had to figure out how he was going to fit back into it because what did they want more? Did I want all this fame and fortune and money? Or did I want my life with that I had built with my husband with the person that I am to share the rest of my life with, you know, the person that I promised that would share the rest of my life with it takes effort, not just you're going to hang out because there's we have this governmental contract thing, you know,
Kaila Tova 1:01:39
right.
Brenda Swann 1:01:41
But yeah, so got even, that's a little crazy to talk about. And I had to, I had to almost like cold turkey just be like, Nope, I'm out like, a mountain. And then the hardest part of that is not only my grieving trying to prove to my you know, the love of my life is the love of my life and say that things are going to change and then it's you know, I can do different I can do better and I'm so sorry, I never meant to neglect you and treat you that way and make you the butt of my jokes. Because he was constantly the butt of my jokes because he isn't into anything that I was into you know and in fact people that knew us on a personal level and saw my meet like my my facade of a life on on the social media channels for like, How the hell do you do that? Because didn't doesn't like working out. He loves pizza. He likes ice cream. He's a normal human. Like he's literally a normal person. And I would like just ridicule him. And like he would be the butt of the jokes all the time. And he just dealt with it. He put up with it. I'm like, Yeah, whatever. He's just, you know, he's a scrawny kid from the south. And he's always going to be scrawny. He's just lucky that with genetics, and you know, scrawny became skinny and skinny skew and like, Yeah, he you know, he hasn't to worry about because he's skinny. He's always going to be skinny, you know, and then whatever, but then he's gonna die of a heart attack at 52. And that's fine, because, you know, I'll get his insurance money.Okay, right, right. Isn't that awful? Awful. Don't you want to hit me across the phone right now?
Kaila Tova 1:03:05
No, because I know, you know, I mean, when I was a really, really deep into my bodybuilding stuff, I was like, I would never date anybody who can't eat like me who doesn't think like me? Who doesn't exercise like me? That's disgusting. Why would I do that? They're right, you know, he would die and I don't want to be responsible for that because unless I can convince you know, my partner to change then I can't do this. Like my whole existence is built around proselytizing other people.
Brenda Swann 1:03:38
Yeah to change.
Kaila Tova 1:03:40
So and I don't want to have to work after work. So you just get with the program. Yeah,
Brenda Swann 1:03:46
yeah, exactly. And as and as much as an as well as I was to him, guess who was still waking up at 430 in the morning to drive me to my to my race day, you know, location because I was also running marathons and all this stuff, you know, and I had this like, one year I had this in fact that the year before he just felt like okay, that's I've had enough. I was running a half marathon every single month because you know, that's what strong, properly fed, perfect. Health humans do. You know, we run up marathons every month. And you know, he would still get up he'd get all my crap he'd carry my gear he picked me up ready with food, the proper food, mind you and the proper gainers. Not in plastic in glass with you know, my supplements and other the end he'd be there to pick me up and oh, and to take my pictures because I needed the perfect pictures to post to go with all of it. Because you know, I didn't just do this for fun, right? If I brand, you know, it's like, oh, take another picture. That wasn't good enough. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was like, Oh, my God, what kind of a freakin monster am I? And what has happened? And how much value am I actually getting out of this? So you know, you sit down, and I've bitched about it before, and I'm about it all the time telling people Okay, sit down and actually figure out your hard cash. How much money are you actually making? And what sacrifices that you know your time? How much of your time are you putting into that you make you really make you $30 an hour? Or are you making 30 cents an hour. And then when I sat down and like literally had to do that for myself, and then halfway through as I'm like, realizing that I'm not making any money that it's, you know, I'm, I'm feeding this other business with my first business, the wedding planning, and everything, and it's just like, Oh, my God, and then I just remember, like, just starting to cry and losing it. And I'm like, I have got to figure out how to make this business plan B, my husband coming back to home, coming home, not not any of this, and I just dropped it. I just dropped it and said screw it. Like, it's, it's not worth it. And and I went and got myself a proper job, quote, unquote, you know, by traditional capitalist standards, I think I'm because I think to an extent, lot of the greater piece of the world that isn't our own realm is still looking at us in this fitness world. I shouldn't say say, I'm sorry, that I'm including you in that still looks at us like, Okay, this isn't a real career, this isn't a real thing. It's not, it's not going you know, it's not something with longevity, like a human resources manager. You know, and so yeah, I went and got myself a proper job and started to have a proper savings and proper, you know, doing everything the traditional adult way, so that I could prove to my husband like, Okay, look, I'm I'm done poking around, and I'm not going to do this anymore. And even it burned to say stuff like that, too. Because it's like, No, that was serious, and it was a serious thing, and you just don't get me but, but that's fine. I don't care that you don't get me I care more that I with my relationship with you, you know, but I still was still even carrying some of that weird things around with me if that makes sense. You know, and then, I mean, I don't know. And it was just socially shameful. In in so many respects, you know, and, and it was, it was hard. It was tough. And it was like, Okay, well, how do I? How do I continue to show like, how, how do I do any of this? How do I do life? How do I do life? How do I get back to wherever I was before I went down this path that I didn't realize was a shit show. I don't even know where to go back to exactly even because I was so deep in. And at that point, I wanted to just make money to show him that what everything I did was value, you know, was valuable. Just like to bring him home again, blaming the money not blaming myself, or my behavior or my action, right? or any of that. You know, and so yeah, like I said, I got myself, I was still running my business in the nice thing about my business, my business pretty much ran itself at that point, right. But that I had fleeced my my own profits, so much trying to build this other thing, that I barely had enough money to keep my staff employed and proper without cutting their hours. And without them having to like, know what was going all up in my business? You know what I mean? Like, because then when any when all this happened, by the way, no one could know because you know, I'm perfect. Right? I want to know, right? No one would like likes the wedding planner with marital problems. No one. No one likes the the wedding planner with marital problems eating ice cream, when she's also a health coach, you know, at night, and everyone didn't like was the wedding planner, who was also a health coach who had marital problems, therefore not eating a thing and all of a sudden dropped 3040 pounds in a matter of months and look better than ever. Right? How are you doing it? How are you mixing. So here's half of me trying to save my marriage. Here's the other half of me making up stories about why I can't save my marriage because the other half of me trying to still being like Lord it back in, because all of a sudden I was rather and again, because Oh, look at how thin and beautiful and pretty I am looking my progressive shots of photos here. And I remember doing a photoshoot kind of at the height of, like, forget it, I don't want to save my marriage, I'm going to save this career, because it's really taken off now. And I remember the makeup artists who was a friend of mine coming in to do my makeup, and she's like, kinda like, I can't, I can't hide this. And she just kind of like this thing of, you know, with her hand over my face. And I was like, what do you what are you talking about? You know, what do you mean? And she was like, I don't know what's wrong, and I don't know where you're at. But like, this isn't your face. This isn't the face, I put makeup on to the last 10 years. I don't know who you are right now. And I can't, I can't not change what you look like right now. And those when I was like, fuck you What do you know, finish I have a photoshoot for this business because you know, it was gonna get new Martin new marketing and new business card because now I had this other job by the way. So I had the job that was feeding me a little bit of steady money. And like real money because you know, you get paid good money when you're a professional. So I had this little bit of money and I was like, whatever, I'm going to do this and it's just going to be my little jumpstart to put me back to where I need to be. But I'm going to run my my business a little bit better, you know, get my husband back and and i'm everything to be perfect and beautiful. And I couldn't use any of those photos because I bought, like I was dying. Like, at the time I couldn't see it. I had the witness even like photographer that did the photos was like, you know, Hey, are you okay? You know, do you need something, you know, whatever, cuz he didn't know what that was going on. He just thought it was doing this promotional stuff or promo for marketing pieces. And like this little ebook I was trying to publish and like all the stuff I was trying to do, by the way, all the stuff I was trying to do that never actually came to fruition like I lost thousands of dollars like a new website and like I said this marketing material and these this ebook and you know, this coaching program that I had to like really, you know, put myself out there but it all of it was fueled by the money that was making in the real job trying to prove to husband that I can have a real job and not get so crazy focused on this other thing and you know, ever and I mean I think that was like the bottom of the barrel. You like I was starting to relapse. Does that make sense? Yeah. relapse and then I was like wait, no, I can't I can't do it in the middle of that it turned into but you know, doing other things like selling oils, and selling whatever that you know, whatever. I just needed to make money I needed to make money so I could show that all this you know, show my husband that it was all worth it. It was all worth it. And and because now I have a steady revenue stream it's gonna change.
Kaila Tova 1:11:40
There's a reason they tell us don't quit your day job. But shame often warps that reminder into the refrain don't quit your day dream for people like Brenda that day dream became a waking nightmare. One who's poll acted like quicksand. The more she struggled and fought the deeper she was dragged. And she was about to get in over head. But we'll save that thought for our next episode.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai